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Ideas | Propositions

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[Locked] Bring it back! Visibility options (only applies to unstable repo upgrade)
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onyxwolf English 51 fabounet [Read]
30 May 2010 à 19:58

onyxwolf, Sunday 16 May 2010 à 00:18


Subscription date : 14 December 2009
Messages : 59
this is barely an option, I'd rather avoid adding options that are incompatible, or that break the global behavior of the dock.
If it's to be added again, it has to integrate in the whole.


That makes sense. I'm certain its possible. In fact I think matttbe's solution makes sense:
But if there is a notification, the dock can be hidden (or 'semi-transparency' with a fade-out effect) except the corresponding icon.


That would be the equivalent to a single icon showing up with the info the apps, etc. needs to give.

fabounet, Sunday 16 May 2010 à 01:20


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
but then your dock will disappear and be replaced by a single icon without you doing anything.
it seems more confusing than a constant behavior for me.

matttbe, Sunday 16 May 2010 à 02:26


Subscription date : 24 January 2009
Messages : 12573
but then your dock will disappear and be replaced by a single icon without you doing anything.
It will not disappear, it will just place above other windows with one icon which will be less transparent than the other.

it seems more confusing than a constant behavior for me.
This events become only when there is something "strange", not so often. The user has to be inform and I think it can be good to have a fade-in effect with a completely semi-transparent dock except one icon and its message !

fabounet, Sunday 16 May 2010 à 02:49


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
It will not disappear, it will just place above other windows with one icon which will be less transparent than the other.


a completely semi-transparent dock except one icon and its message


hmm, this is quite contradictory

matttbe, Sunday 16 May 2010 à 13:31


Subscription date : 24 January 2009
Messages : 12573
For me, semi-transparent != transparent
And with some fade-out/fade-in effects, it will really not intrusive! (Just try )

fabounet, Sunday 16 May 2010 à 18:39


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
intrusive != visible
intrusive is also because it will prevent from clicking on the window it overlaps.

onyxwolf, Tuesday 18 May 2010 à 06:23


Subscription date : 14 December 2009
Messages : 59
I appreciate you sticking in an option to disable the "Always display icon; even when dock is hidden?". I could see how some people might enjoy that option.

this is barely an option, I'd rather avoid adding options that are incompatible, or that break the global behavior of the dock.


Considering it further, I understand your not wanting to "break the global behavior"; however, I don't think it is. I think its providing another option. Even the check box needed to be checked in order for the option to work says "even when dock is HIDDEN" not even when dock is below active window... Still perhaps consider just graying out that option for the applets' icons, when the visibility is set to keep below.

I could accept the hidden options being the only options, if the docks hiding wasn't still so buggy. I am starting to use a third dock (on the top with a default view w/auto-hide turned on vs. the 3d plane w/out auto-hide of the other two). The third won't auto-hide upon first load until you scroll over it. That isn't a huge issue to me; however, when I have an active window over the primary dock and it hides the other two, when that active window no longer overlaps the docks and they unhide, ALL three unhide, and it seems to break the auto-hide function of the third dock. Perhaps consider making it available with notation until hiding is more reliable (another major reason I went to keep below in the first place).

fabounet, Tuesday 18 May 2010 à 12:18


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
currently the visibility options are global to all docks (that is to say, the "auto-hide" feature for a 2nd or 3rd main dock is broken)
If you don't set this option, I think it works quite smoothly (I've done some simple tests, but if there remains a bug, please tell me a way to reproduce it )

about the "always visible" option of some applets, it's not the main case when you will have visible icons with a hidden dock. It's more when you get some notification.

onyxwolf, Tuesday 18 May 2010 à 19:55


Subscription date : 14 December 2009
Messages : 59
I think I know what you are talking about. When I get a new mail and my dock is hidden, only my Thunderbird icon pops up to tell me that I have that new mail.

Again that seems to be a feature geared toward those who like the dock to be hidden. I was fine (and think that it was more attention grabbing) with the old behavior when visibility was keep below. That is to say that it was ok by me for the whole dock to come to the front to tell me something.

I do appreciate the hard work that goes into making these features and the cool animations when the dock hides; however, I think its not for everyone. I don't think the way it notifies is a global behavior but more of an opted behavior. If keep below was never removed and the only way I found out about the new notifications when hiding was by playing the configurations (which I do from time to time) then I would have nodded, said "thats neat," and kept it on hide when a window is over it for about a day. After that i would have switched back to keep below and been happy with the whole dock popping up to tell me something. Instead removing keep below is forcing a behavior on your users. Reminds me of an ugly grey triangle that AWN forces users to use as an indicator (at least thats how it was back when I used AWN for a day then dumped it for CD because of that). That is unless the user uses the "prevent windows from overlapping the dock" option; in which case, the entire dock is already visible when it gives a notification. Its an option that is probably not very used, but its available to those who want it. Why can't keep below be?

currently the visibility options are global to all docks (that is to say, the "auto-hide" feature for a 2nd or 3rd main dock is broken)


isn't that taking a step back in making independent main-docks? and the option actually isn't completely broken as it still works good enough when you first start CD. I just have to mouse over the third dock and it will auto-hide while the others don't (even after I mouse over them), its as if the hide when window is over option forces the global perimeters and breaks the individual docks auto-hide. At least that is what I'm experiencing.

onyxwolf, Tuesday 18 May 2010 à 20:04


Subscription date : 14 December 2009
Messages : 59
Also as matttbe put it-- if you really wanted only a single icon to display with keep below, then how about using his idea (of making the rest of the dock transparent) on it only when the dock pops up to give the notification (as its last behavior was).

intrusive is also because it will prevent from clicking on the window it overlaps.

only when it pops up with a notification, but then again the user will probably take care of the notification before needing to click on where the dock will be.

fabounet, Tuesday 18 May 2010 à 22:38


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
isn't that taking a step back in making independent main-docks?

sure it is but I had to break many things to achieve a better result
I'm planning on adding this feature back, maybe differently (the best would be independant visibility options for all docks).

Anyway be assured that having several independant main docks is a major goal of the 2.2, since we can't make a proper Unity theme without that

Again that seems to be a feature geared toward those who like the dock to be hidden

but the fact is that the dock is only hidden if you have a window (or only the current window) overlapping your dock.
In this case, when the dock was kept below, it was also covered, and then hidden (by the window, though not entirely).

Its an option that is probably not very used, but its available to those who want it

yes because it doesn't bring problems

I've learned at my expense that adding features infinitely is not the good way, so now I'm carefully considering any new option (we can consider this one as new since I would have to rewrite it if it should be added again).
So I'm trying to figure out what makes this option different from the current ones.
If it's only to have a small part of the dock always visible, I see no interest. Especially since applets that bring information can be set "always visible".

onyxwolf, Tuesday 18 May 2010 à 23:54


Subscription date : 14 December 2009
Messages : 59
If it's only to have a small part of the dock always visible, I see no interest. Especially since applets that bring information can be set "always visible".


That's not it at all. It feels more integrated with the desktop without being in the way of applications, plain and simple. Maybe you're right, if its that difficult to add back, and I'm the only one supporting it, then don't sweat it. Anyone know which version was right before that got taken away and where I can get?

matttbe, Wednesday 19 May 2010 à 00:39


Subscription date : 24 January 2009
Messages : 12573
I think it's a really good mode (maybe not the best and a new mode with a mix of 'Keep Bellow' and 'Semi transparent' can be interesting) and it should still be available just to not disturb users' habits.

Moreover I think it's not a good idea "to force a behavior on the users" except for Beta versions but it's interesting to inform the users that a new mode is available.

Guest, Wednesday 19 May 2010 à 11:52

Hi,
I just want to join in the name of the "keep the dock below" "wanters"

I've used this option, because (as onyxwolf too) I like to see the dock below all my open windows (even if i have only a thin line visible) and it really annoys me if it's moving and deforming as soon as I move the cursor away
No offense, the animations are really cool, but I want to see all my icons in the real size at the bottom of the screen. Now I must use "always on top" and therefore I can easily "move in" to the dock and activate it (i use firebug a lot and i'ts tiny icon is always somewhere around a dock icon...).

The another reason is that I want to see my running programs/windows, because I use a lot of them and change them rapidly. It's really annoying, if the dock hides, or even shrinks :/

I tried the new options a few times to achive some more or less (similar) comfortable effect that I'm used to, but I couldn't:
  • The semi-transparent mode don't work for me (the dock simply collapses to the center and moves down and gone - exatly as the "move down" mode)
  • The fade out could be an option if I could adjust the transparency

matttbe, Wednesday 19 May 2010 à 11:57


Subscription date : 24 January 2009
Messages : 12573
Thank you for this comment

forestwalker, Wednesday 19 May 2010 à 12:04


Subscription date : 19 May 2010
Messages : 36
I was the "long commenting guest" before I thought I was logged in...

fabounet, Wednesday 19 May 2010 à 13:04


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
it really annoys me if it's moving and deforming as soon as I move the cursor away
... I want to see all my icons in the real size at the bottom of the screen.


what about the hiding effect "semi-transparent" ?


The another reason is that I want to see my running programs/windows, because I use a lot of them and change them rapidly. It's really annoying, if the dock hides, or even shrinks :/

why not reserving space then ?
I find illogical to not want the dock to hide, and be ok with the dock being hidden by the windows.
in both case, your dock is not visible

if you place windows so that the dock is still visible, then why not just usse the "reserve space" mode ?

* The semi-transparent mode don't work for me (the dock simply collapses to the center and moves down and gone - exatly as the "move down" mode)
          • The fade out could be an option if I could adjust the transparency

ok you tried semi-transparent. did you try in cairo mode ? but it should work in OpenGL as well ... maybe a little bug here.
which adjustment are you talking about ? maybe the fade speed ? Animations' speed is configurable in "Systems".

forestwalker, Wednesday 19 May 2010 à 13:40


Subscription date : 19 May 2010
Messages : 36
why not reserving space then ?
I find illogical to not want the dock to hide, and be ok with the dock being hidden by the windows.
in both case, your dock is not visible

if you place windows so that the dock is still visible, then why not just usse the "reserve space" mode ?

it's simple: I use a lot of programs, more or less on top of each other (firefox + separate console + some dialogs, some consoles, developer tools, sometimes vmware, plus the applets I want to see - not to mention the other instances of these apps or some editors). I have only 768px height, and I need all windows as much tall as possible, therefore I configure(d) the dock to be at the bottom of the screen and hidden _halfway_ by the windows (and before I could call into foreground if I needed it).

In addition: it's not about logic, but everyday use. Honestly I tried other configurations and this is the one I can use the best (not to mention, that I'm used to it This is my experience of months of using/configuring my desktop/apps.
ok you tried semi-transparent. did you try in cairo mode ? but it should work in OpenGL as well ... maybe a little bug here.

don't want to use cairo it's slow (er than gl) plus why don't use gl if i can free CPU resource by passing fancy animations to the "bored" GPU
which adjustment are you talking about ? maybe the fade speed ? Animations' speed is configurable in "Systems".

I'm talking about the amount of transparency in the "fade mode". I could deal with the absence of the "keep below" if I could _see_ the icons (in the real size, although the zoom mode is sweet )
If I could alter the transparency to be 80% visible, it could be OK to me (I think

forestwalker, Wednesday 19 May 2010 à 13:51


Subscription date : 19 May 2010
Messages : 36
Anyway: as a developer, I understand your opinion, and the logic, but people don't use such a fancy-mancy cool-looking-moving-sparkling stuff like CD just for productivity or practicality.
I think, "we" use it (min. partially) because it looks cool It's an eye-candy on the desktop. So want to see it.
(And on top of it, there are the logical/practical reasons...)

Sorry for talking that much, I really miss the "cast out" feature: "Always stay below"

Regards,
fw

matttbe, Wednesday 19 May 2010 à 14:01


Subscription date : 24 January 2009
Messages : 12573
don't want to use cairo it's slow (er than gl) plus why don't use gl if i can free CPU resource by passing fancy animations to the "bored" GPU
No, it's just to know if your bug with semi-transparent mode is due to your drivers (or a bug with OpenGL backend) or not

If I could alter the transparency to be 80% visible, it could be OK to me (I think
But if "keep bellow" mode is back, it's better I guess

but people don't use such a fancy-mancy cool-looking-moving-sparkling stuff like CD just for productivity or practicality.

Ideas | Propositions

Subjects Author Language Messages Last message
[Locked] Bring it back! Visibility options (only applies to unstable repo upgrade)
Page : 1 2 3
onyxwolf English 51 fabounet [Read]
30 May 2010 à 19:58


Glx-Dock / Cairo-Dock List of forums Ideas | Propositions Bring it back! Visibility options (only applies to unstable repo upgrade) Top

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