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Ideas | Propositions

Subjects Author Language Messages Last message
[Locked] cairo-dock with gnome-do as a substitute of gnome-panel
Page : 1 2
andrea English 22 fabounet [Read]
13 October 2008 à 17:27

andrea, Tuesday 30 September 2008 à 23:41


Subscription date : 30 September 2008
Messages : 10
Cairo-dock works very well for me. So well, that I have disabled the Gnome panel. I think that:

1) it would be interesting to suggest "officially" (adding some words to the cairo-dock documentation, for instance) that cairo-dock can be used as a complete alternative to gnome-panel. I think this is a natural goal for the project, since cairo-dock is actually just a more modern concept of a panel, there is no reason to keep two objects running which do almost the same job

However if one starts using cairo-dock *without* gnome-panel, some problems arise, which lead to the following points:

2) some applets available for the gnome panel are no longer available; if would be good to have substitutes for them; in particular:

3) one needs a substitute for the main menu; yes, one can bind <Alt><F1> to a launcher, but this does not work anymore if gnome-panel is disabled, so one would actually need a substitute for the menu

4) one needs a substitute for the gnome calendar; this is a very nice calendar, with different time zones and integration with evolution (busy days are shown in the calendar and appointments can be entered by clicking on the dates); it would be very nice to have a substitute. A calendar applet should first of all show clearly the date (and possibly time), and it should have integration with calendar applications such as evolution

5) the tomboy sub_dock is nice, but it does'nt work the right way; if one has hundreds of tomboy notes and the parabolic view enabled (or also other views) all the notes are visualized together and it becomes impossible to chose one.

6) it would be nice to be able to import desklets and gnome applets

7) it would be nice if the memory footprint was reduced, cairo-dock eats up more memory than gnome-panel

Comparing cairo-dock with other docks, such as Awn, I noticed very good points (smoother animation, nicer layout), but also points that can be improved:

8. when adding a launcher, the icon for it is not immediately suggested by the system (as in Awn). It would be much more confortable if cairo-dock would follow here the example of Awn.

9) the configuration interface is a bit clumsy, that of Awn is better.

Andrea

fabounet, Wednesday 01 October 2008 à 02:36


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
I personnaly don't think that Gnome will drop off its panel one day
there are way too conservative, plus it does work well.
but you're right, you can now substitute it with Cairo-Dock.

just few points :
4 : the clock applet has a calendar and timezone (it lacks integration with Evolution though, maybe it's not so complicated to add)
7 : did you try to see if by chance 1 or 2 applets are not eating most of this memory ?
8 : I don't see, what do you mean by "suggested" ? when you add a launcher into the dock, it takes the right icon.
9 : I agree, but I won't spend time on a Glade GUI for the moment. Anyone wanting to do a configurator is welcome

andrea, Wednesday 01 October 2008 à 12:13


Subscription date : 30 September 2008
Messages : 10
1) Sure, I was not suggesting that Gnome drop off its panel, just that the cairo-dock community props up the idea of a complete substitution. For instance, it could be a paragraph added to the documentation saying which steps are to be taken to substitute the gnome-panel.
4) Yes, but the gnome applet has the possibility of showing several timezones at the same time. Moreover, you don't need to know a code for the timezone, just click on a map. Sure I am able to look for a timezone, but I am speaking about general usability.
7) Will do.
8 ) With gnome-panel, when I add a launcher for an application the correct icon pops up in the dialog without even finishing to write down the application name. Then I can click on the icon if I want to change it. I think the same was with Awn. Then, perhaps there is something broken with my cairo-dock configuration. In the list of Icon Themes I have first _ThemeDirectory_ and as a second one I added /usr/share/icons/Tango/scalable/apps; it doesn't seem to work, I have to specify for each individual icon the whole path again. Moreover, it's not clear what should be written in the Icon Themes list: ideally it should be just /usr/share/icons/Tango, but I think it doesn't work either. All in all, the addition of a new launcher is a bit painful for me with cairo-dock, with gnome-panel or Awn it was better.
9) I fear I am not in a condition to do that... I am just suggesting to have a look at the configurator for Awn which looked better to me.
6) It would also be interesting to merge code from desklets, so that available desklets (there are lot of, if considering also those from google) can be integrated into cairo-dock. For instance, one could download a nice calendar desklet from there. Yes, one can activate desklets together with cairo-dock, but it becomes clumsy.


andrea, Wednesday 01 October 2008 à 12:31


Subscription date : 30 September 2008
Messages : 10
I noticed some problem with individual applets:

the Stack: it doesn't treat correctly symbolic links; I added a link to a directory and it appears as a text file.

the Switcher: I have 6 desktops, sometimes they are recognized, sometimes only 4 are shown (it is random).

the Quit applet: it would be nice if it was clickable, showing several options such as Log off, Hybernate and so on (instead of just calling the gnome log-out dialog). The option could also be presented as a sub_dock view.

the Sound applet: when detached (and small, say 64x64) the volume cursor is too short and not usable.

For other applets I have some proposals

System monitor applets: it would be nice to have simpler and perhaps more compact applets, for instance, a single applet showing ram, cpu usage and other information as bars. And also applets for disk occupation. But a single configurable applet with lot of information would probably be the more practical choice (as now, I am keeping three separate applets for net, ram and cpu)

Clock: it doesn't show date in a clear fashion when small. And there is no calendar applet as a substitute.

The rest which I tried works very well, many effects are quite nice (such as the wave effect and the Mac-OS like view) everything is really usable and neat.

fabounet, Wednesday 01 October 2008 à 15:23


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
4) the Clock applet can be launched many times => many timezone
moreover you can choose your timezone in a list, no need to enter manually the code.
just write Tango move it to the top of the list if you prefer Tango's icons.
9) better or just too much simple that's the problem with a high level of configuration. I think we could do better of course, but I don't have enough time for now. Maybe for the 2.0...
6) CD has its own desklets, they are not yet as pretty as screenlets for exemple, but one goal is to improve their design. Plus we have the Weblets applets that can handle mozilla applets. Google apps could be nice too.

fabounet, Wednesday 01 October 2008 à 15:39


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
Stack : how did you add it ? you drag'n'dropped a file from Nautilus ?
Switcher : try to launch the dock with a delay on startup, maybe Compiz takes some time to load the 6 desktops.
Logout : under Ubuntu, it raises the logout panel, which has all these options. It's not really our job to re-do that, it's the distribution's one I guess. Don't you have such a panel when you logout ? if so, there is probably a command that can raise it, I would integrate it if I knew it.
AlsaMixer : ok, don't know what to do for that, but you can also scroll up/down with the mouse directly on the icon (or maybe shift + scroll)
System monitor applets : I also agree the problem is to represent such an amount of values in a single icon. If we opt for a sub-dock, then you can already do it manually (create a subdock, then edit the 3 applets and set their container to the new dock's name).
Clock : you mean the red date is too small ? you can choose to write it on the label instead of on the icon. Also there is a calendar by clicking on the icon, but I admit it is quite simple.

Anyway thanks for your constructive feedback !

Guest, Friday 03 October 2008 à 19:56

>4) the Clock applet can be launched many times => many timezone
Right, I didn't notice!

>moreover you can choose your timezone in a list, no need to enter manually the code.
Also right! Now I have seen the list. Only point: locations are in a strange order, not always alphabetic.

>just write Tango move it to the top of the list if you prefer Tango's icons.
Thank you! I think an example in the pop-up message would be useful, I could not have imagined it without your help.

>Stack : how did you add it ? you drag'n'dropped a file from Nautilus ?
Yes, what's wrong with that? Moreover, I thought it was possible to drag and drop a file into one of those directories, instead it is just added to the stack

Thank you for your assistance and the nice work!

Guest, Friday 03 October 2008 à 20:50

I have a problem. Without the gnome-panel, network folders contained in my shortcut list are not mounted anymore at login. Do you know how to mount them without having to call gnome-panel?

Guest, Friday 03 October 2008 à 22:50

I think I found the solution, one has to do gvfs-mount at login. The Gnome bookmarks are in .gtk-bookmarks.

Guest, Saturday 04 October 2008 à 19:38

So at the moment I do as follows with network folders:

- I have a link to .gvfs in the Stack
- I manually mount the network folder when I need it with gvfs-mount ssh://<url>; I have to remember the urls or recover them with cat .gtk-bookmarks, of course; its a bit unconvenient
- the network folder appears in .gvfs

This is to be compared with what I would do with the gnome-panel: just click on Main-Menu->Places->Bookmarks->url

So my proposal is: allow for the automatic mount of network folders with cairo-dock in the absence of gnome-panel. Gnome bookmarks are already available through the "shortcuts" applet, but in the absence of gnome-panel they are not mounted; actually, even mounting them manually with gvfs-mount doesn't work, the "shortcuts" applet still shows them unmounted (I don't really understand why, perhaps the applet does not look for them in .gvfs).

Instead, the "shortcuts" applet should work in such a way that unmounted bookmarks were simply mounted by clicking on them, while right clicking should give the possibility to unmount them.

This would go in the direction of making cairo-dock a complete substitute of gnome-panel.

The other important step in that direction would be to provide a substitute for main menu.

I think these two steps are actually the main ones, then it would be enough to provide substitutes for some handy gnome applets and the job would be done, one would not need gnome-panel anymore.

It is true that gnome-panel is a basic solution which works, but it is far from perfect: although it has been around for quite some years it still has applets crashing, it takes on a lot of memory, it takes a lot to load at start. And it is ugly and poorly configurable in comparison to cairo-dock.

Guest, Saturday 04 October 2008 à 19:46

There is no sense in keeping two pieces of software in your RAM doing essentially the same job. It is unpractical, unlogical, and inefficient.

A really nice solution would be to have a clickable item in cairo-dock configurator allowing to select "activate/deactivate gnome-panel".

The effect of clicking it would be:
- to cancel gnome-panel from the session list, so that it is not started automatically at login
- to toggle those behavior which are necessary in the absence of gnome-panel, such as cairo-dock taking care of mounting/unmounting network folders.

fabounet, Monday 06 October 2008 à 12:13


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
There is now an applet dedicated to the Main Menu
about the mounted points, it's not the gnome-panel's job to mount them
I believe it's automount's job.

In shortcuts, when you click on an unmounted icon, isn't there a dialog that appears to ask you if you want to mount it ?

activate or not the Gnome panel is also not pertinent for Cairo-Dock, it's up to Gnome to propose an easy way to add/remove some of their components, if it's not yet possible.

Stack : I've tried at home to drag'n'drop a file from Nautilus into the Stack. The file was a symlink on another file, and it didn't pose any problem. (the file opens correctly on click)

andrea, Tuesday 07 October 2008 à 09:40


Subscription date : 30 September 2008
Messages : 10
>In shortcuts, when you click on an unmounted icon, isn't there a dialog that appears to ask you if you want to mount it ?

No. I have icons corresponding to the gnome bookmarks from .gtk-bookmarks. Network folders are displayed as a question mark. If I left click on the question mark it blinks twice, then nothing happens. If I right click I get only "Cairo Dock" (with configure, manage themes etc.) and "Remove this bookmark".
Actually the dialog you mention would be exactly what I was looking for.
What can be wrong?

andrea, Tuesday 07 October 2008 à 09:48


Subscription date : 30 September 2008
Messages : 10
>Stack : I've tried at home to drag'n'drop a file from Nautilus into the Stack. The file was a symlink on another file, and it didn't pose
>any problem. (the file opens correctly on click)

I am not able to reproduce this one, I remember that after some time I found that the simlink was opened as a text file, but I cannot reproduce it, apparently it was random.

What should happen instead when I drop a file over one of the directories listed in the Stack? I thought that the file should be moved to that directory. Instead it is added to the Stack. Am I wrong somewhere?

fabounet, Tuesday 07 October 2008 à 11:38


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
ok I see.
the dialog appears when you click on a mount point, but bookmarks are considered as simple file, not as mount point, even when they actually are.
shouldn't this mount point appear with the others mount points, rather than being in your shortcuts ?

the purpose of Stack is to build a stack of files, URL, or even pieces of text, that you access often.
if you want to manage a folder, I think the best would be to import it into the dock (drop it somewhere in your launchers)
then when you drop a file on it, it should be copied into it.
if you don't want to import its content (just have a launcher on it but without seeing its files in a subdock), I'm not sure it will happen though (never tested )

andrea, Tuesday 07 October 2008 à 18:06


Subscription date : 30 September 2008
Messages : 10
>ok I see.
>the dialog appears when you click on a mount point, but bookmarks are considered as simple file, not as mount point, even when they actually are.
Seems so.

>shouldn't this mount point appear with the others mount points, rather than being in your shortcuts ?
I don't understand well... where are the "other" mount points?
In Gnome there are "bookmarks", that may be folders or mountpoints (dynamic mountpoints as I understand), and they are imported by the "shortcuts" applet. What should I do instead?

andrea, Tuesday 07 October 2008 à 18:09


Subscription date : 30 September 2008
Messages : 10
I have also a proposal for an applet allowing to chose special characters (greek letters, etc.). There is one for the gnome-panel. In cairo-dock it could be very nice, it could show a table with special symbols and clicking one or drag and dropping it on a text it would produce it. One should be able to customize the applet with the character he/she uses more often.

fabounet, Wednesday 08 October 2008 à 12:16


Subscription date : 30 November 2007
Messages : 17118
well I'll try to consider bookmarked mount points as they should be
It's on my list, when I'll have a few time.

is this applet also used to switch keybord langage ? what is its name ?

andrea, Friday 10 October 2008 à 00:28


Subscription date : 30 September 2008
Messages : 10
No, the keyboard switch may be managed through the control center, you don't need the panel for that.
This applet is just about having a set of special characters at hand and drag and drop them on your text:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Using_GNOME/Character_palette

andrea, Saturday 11 October 2008 à 21:54


Subscription date : 30 September 2008
Messages : 10
Another proposal: an applet for "recently used documents" would be handy.
(Again, this is one thing you lose if you don't use gnome-panel)

Ideas | Propositions

Subjects Author Language Messages Last message
[Locked] cairo-dock with gnome-do as a substitute of gnome-panel
Page : 1 2
andrea English 22 fabounet [Read]
13 October 2008 à 17:27


Glx-Dock / Cairo-Dock List of forums Ideas | Propositions cairo-dock with gnome-do as a substitute of gnome-panel Top

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